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Category: Before We Get There

  • Lav Chloe on Going Viral by Accident and the ADHD Behind the Voices

    Lav Chloe on Going Viral by Accident and the ADHD Behind the Voices

    Intro

    Lav Chloe did impressions for years before anyone was watching. In private, for her friends. Late last year she recorded one, a single take she planned to delete, and posted it so a few people close to her could see it. She woke up to a million views, then millions more, and the private thing she did to make her friends laugh became her whole career.

    In this episode we get into what she found out about herself along the way. That the same wiring behind the accents, the ease of slipping into someone else’s voice, is the ADHD she was diagnosed with at 30, years after leaving medical school. How the relief of finally understanding herself arrived alongside anger at how long it took. The line she walks doing accents without mocking anyone, and why she ends up defending people in her own comments. And where she thinks the humor comes from in the first place. She is not chasing the next viral hit. She is figuring out what to do with the one she did not plan for.

    Story Highlights

    • Doing impressions privately for her friends for years, then recording one take she meant to delete, posting it, and waking up to a million views.
    • Her first viral video being completely unpolished, and that being the whole point.
    • Coming to see intention and perception as two different things, and making sure her intention is clear in everything she puts out.
    • The care underneath the comedy: underdoing an accent rather than exaggerating it, so it reads as homage and not mockery, especially for accents that already face scrutiny.
    • The haters who accused her of insulting cultures, and the advice she took to heart, that silence is the best response to trolls.
    • Why she still steps into her own comments, not to defend herself, but to defend the people her impressions are about when others use them as cover to mock.
    • The irony she noticed, that the harshest commenters tend to come from multiracial countries, while people from more homogenous places have been more respectful.
    • Suspecting she had ADHD at 27, getting formally diagnosed and medicated at 30, and being in medical school before she ever had a name for it.
    • How the ease of mimicry and code-switching that makes her good at accents is the same ADHD wiring, to the point that a week around someone is enough to pick up how they sound.
    • The grief inside the diagnosis, relief that her life finally made sense, and anger that she could have had the tools years earlier.
    • Turning her hobbies into work and burning out on them, from a dance crew to a food page, and learning to keep some things back just for herself.
    • Why she resists being called an influencer and prefers creator, and her view that cringe is the price you pay for freedom.
    • Where she thinks Malaysian humor comes from, generations of hardship turned into a way of laughing at pain.

    Quote

    “I think it explains a lot of who I am, and thank God for that. Otherwise, I would always think to myself, what’s wrong with me?”

    About Lav Chloe

    Lav Chloe is a Malaysian content creator based in Kuala Lumpur, known for her accents and impressions. She went viral in late 2025 from a video she first made for her friends, and has built a following for her comedy since. She studied medicine before content creation, and is open about living with ADHD, which she was diagnosed with at 30. Find her at @sorude_ on Instagram and TikTok.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Most people meet Lav through the clips. The accents, the impressions, the videos that ran into the millions. This conversation is the person behind them. She talks about the wiring that makes her good at what she does being the same thing she spent most of her life thinking was wrong with her, about the care she puts into not mocking the people she imitates, and about finding out at 30 what had been going on the whole time. It is not a viral-success story. It is someone discovering that the thing that made her feel broken is the thing she is best at, and working out what to do with it.

    Turning Points

    • Recording an impression she meant to delete, posting it for her friends, and waking up to a million views that turned into a career.
    • Getting formally diagnosed with ADHD at 30, and the anger that came before the relief.
    • Realizing the mimicry behind her accents is the same wiring behind the diagnosis, and that the talent and the thing she thought was wrong with her are one and the same.
    • Deciding to stop performing a version of herself she thought people wanted, and posting through the cringe instead.

    Key Lessons

    • The thing you think is wrong with you can be the thing you are best at. The ADHD she spent years wishing away is the same wiring that lets her slip into any voice.
    • Respect is the line between an impression and mockery. She underdoes the accent and treats it as homage, which is why the work reads as funny instead of cruel.
    • Silence is usually the right answer to trolls, until it isn’t. She lets the hate roll off, except when commenters use her impressions as cover to mock the people behind them, and then she speaks up.
    • A late diagnosis brings relief and grief together. Finally understanding herself made sense of her whole life, and also made her angry about the years she spent without the help.
    • The funniest people are often working through something heavy. Her read on Malaysian humor is that it comes from generations of hardship, turned into a way of laughing at pain.

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  • Angela Lee on Retiring from Fighting, Losing Her Sister, and Who She Became After

    Angela Lee on Retiring from Fighting, Losing Her Sister, and Who She Became After

    Intro

    Angela Lee spent almost her whole life as a fighter. She won a world title as a teenager, held it for years, and walked away from the sport in 2023, not long after losing her sister Victoria. What looked from the outside like a champion retiring on her own terms was, for her, the start of an identity crisis. Fighting was the only thing she had ever done and the only way she had ever made money, and without it she did not know who she was.

    In this episode we get into what came after. Speaking openly about her mental health and starting her nonprofit Fight Story, and how choosing that path left her feeling like the black sheep, with her world shrinking to her husband Bruno and their daughter Ava. How she learned to advocate for herself by treating it the way she would stand up for the people she loves. And how she found new people, at the gym and around the work, who became a second family. She is not looking for a way back to the cage. She is building a life on the other side of it.

    Story Highlights

    • Winning a world title as a teenager and building her entire identity around being a fighter, until she could not separate who she was from what she did.
    • The trap she describes at the top: once you are champion, you cannot lose, because losing means the title, the paycheck, and everything that comes with it, all at once.
    • The goalpost that kept moving, telling herself she would feel safe at 10 and 0, then 20 and 0, and never getting there.
    • Retiring in 2023 with no hesitation and no love left for the sport, then realizing fighting was the only way she knew how to make money.
    • The identity crisis after she laid the belt down, sitting up late asking herself what she was even good at other than fighting.
    • Losing her sister Victoria, and how it froze everything and made her ask what she was actually doing with her life.
    • Coming up in a fighting culture that shut her down when she tried to voice what she was going through, and why she is now adamant about building something safer.
    • Starting Fight Story, opening up about her own mental health for the first time, and becoming the black sheep for it.
    • Learning to advocate for herself by thinking of it as standing up for Victoria and for Ava.
    • Being let down by the people closest to her, and watching others step up to fill those spaces.
    • Writing United We Rise with Bruno, and what they want it to be for Ava.
    • The everyday fighter idea she is building her next chapter around, and finally being in a good season.

    Quote

    “I’m getting to introduce myself in a new way, as a person who, yes, has also won championships, but is now so much more than that.”

    About Angela Lee

    Angela Lee is a retired mixed martial artist and a six-time world champion who competed at atomweight before stepping away from the sport in 2023. She is the founder of Fight Story, a nonprofit focused on mental health in and around combat sports, and the co-author, with her husband Bruno Pucci, of United We Rise. She lives in Hawaii, where she trains and coaches, and is the mother of daughter Ava. These days she describes herself as an everyday fighter, carrying what the sport taught her into a life beyond it. Find her at @angelaleemma.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Most people know how Angela’s fighting career went. The world title, the reign, the retirement. This conversation is the part that came after the cameras left. She talks about not knowing who she was once the fighting stopped, about the years of grief and rebuilding, and about the cost of speaking honestly when the people around you are not ready to hear it. It is not a comeback story. It is a person figuring out who she is when the thing she built her whole identity on is gone, and deciding to keep fighting for different things.

    Turning Points

    • Realizing after retirement that she had built her entire identity around being a fighter, and had no idea who she was without it.
    • Losing Victoria, and the moment everything else stopped mattering and she had to ask what kind of life she actually wanted.
    • Choosing to start Fight Story and speak openly about her mental health, knowing it would set her apart from the people closest to her.
    • Learning to stand up for herself by framing it as standing up for the people she loves, which she calls the beginning of finding her voice.

    Key Lessons

    • The hardest part of winning is what it does to losing. Once she was champion, every fight became something she could only lose, never win, and that pressure took the joy out of it.
    • Retiring is not the end of the crisis, it is the start of one. Walking away meant losing not just the sport but the identity, the income, and the structure built around it, all at once.
    • Speaking honestly has a cost, and it is worth paying anyway. Opening up about her mental health made her the black sheep, but she knew it mattered and did it regardless.
    • You can learn to advocate for yourself through the people you love. She could not stand up for herself directly, so she did it by imagining she was standing up for Victoria and Ava.
    • When some people fall away, others step in. The support she expected did not always come from where she thought, and the community she built became a second family.

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  • Amber Tan on Leaving Singapore Airlines for the Fishery Port, and What It Cost Her

    Amber Tan on Leaving Singapore Airlines for the Fishery Port, and What It Cost Her

    Intro

    Amber Tan left Singapore Airlines and put 170,000 dollars of her own savings into a fish business she set up for her then-partner. She lost most of it. When the relationship ended and he left her holding the company’s debts, she took the business over herself, taught herself the trade on the Jurong Fishery Port floor in the middle of the night, and turned it around as a single mother.

    In this episode we get into how she learned the business by making expensive mistakes with her own money, what it took to win over a port full of uncles who told her to go home, and the two selves she carries: the polish Singapore Airlines trained into her, and the woman swearing in Hokkien on the wet market floor. She would have fought to save the business either way. Leaving him, she says, is the part she could not have done without her daughter.

    Story Highlights

    • Setting up the company for her partner, funding all of it, and watching 170,000 dollars of her savings go before she knew the first thing about fish or business.
    • Getting stuck with the bill, as she tells it, when he shipped in fish from Indonesian suppliers under her company name and then went quiet, leaving her to settle it because you cannot owe the government money.
    • Taking over with her last 10,000 dollars, letting the worker go, and going down to the port herself in the middle of the night.
    • Breaking even by February, the Chinese New Year after she took over.
    • The uncles at the port, shirtless and skeptical, telling her to go home, asking if her hands had ever done housework, handing her a calculator because they assumed she could not count.
    • The aunties and uncles who call her Xiao Mei, little sister, and now say goodbye to her as their wet market stalls close one by one.
    • Apologizing to every Grab driver for the smell, and learning that the slime gets into your nails no matter how hard you scrub.
    • The correction to the headlines: the 300 dollars everyone read about was the company account, not her personal savings.
    • Working a wet market stall for cash and realizing on the fly that she could own all three levels of the chain, port to stall to your door.
    • The grandfather who flew the family somewhere new every birthday and wanted to see his tomboy granddaughter become Singapore Airlines crew.

    Quote

    “Both the SQ thing and this fishery port thing, both are part of me, and I’m just learning to weave them together to form this person that’s my authentic self.”

    About Amber Tan

    Amber Tan is a Singapore fishmonger who runs a wholesale seafood business out of Jurong Fishery Port, supplying live marble goby to restaurants and running door-to-door deliveries, with a small warehouse across the border in Johor Bahru. She spent years as Singapore Airlines cabin crew before setting up the business, and took it over on her own after her relationship ended, teaching herself the trade from the port floor up. She is opening a wet market stall this year to close the loop between port and customer. Find her business at Pao Ker Seafood on Instagram.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    The version of Amber that went viral was a headline: the cabin crew who lost everything and ended up at the fish port. The conversation is the part the headline skips. She can tell you why the auntie buying five fish gets fresher seafood than the supermarket, what a farmed marble goby looks like next to one from the sea, and how she is stitching port, stall, and delivery into one chain. She is not a survival story. She is someone learning a hard trade in real time and thinking several moves ahead, doing it with a two-year-old and no partner.

    Turning Points

    • Realizing about five months in that he had lied about everything, and pulling the handbrake on putting more of her money into the business.
    • Her friend’s line: if you stay, your daughter grows up thinking this is how men are allowed to treat her. That is when something snapped.
    • Being left with the suppliers’ debt and deciding she had no choice but to take the company over herself.
    • The night she let the worker go and went down to the port floor alone, in what she calls survival mode, just trying to make it to the next day.

    Key Lessons

    • Keep the business and the relationship separate. The advice she got from every business-owner friend, and the one she wishes she had taken. Tangling the two meant losing both at once.
    • Expensive mistakes teach fastest. With her own money riding on every shipment, a bad supplier or a wrong call gets etched in. She learned the trade by feeling the losses.
    • The wet market is dying, and most people do not see why that should bother them. Her point is that the auntie taking a few pieces straight off the boat sells you fresher fish at lower overhead than the supermarket, and convenience is quietly killing that.
    • Own the whole chain. She took a market stall job because she needed cash, and realized she could hold all three levels: port, stall, and delivery. Desperation turned into strategy.
    • Do not let one person rewrite how you see everyone. Even after being lied to about everything, she refuses to go guarded into new relationships, because that would let him take more than he already did.

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  • Jeremy Tan on Running as an Independent and the End of the One-Job Career

    Jeremy Tan on Running as an Independent and the End of the One-Job Career

    Intro

    Jeremy Tan ran for Singapore Parliament as an independent, with no party behind him, and lost. He also took the highest vote share any independent has managed here in 53 years.

    In this episode we get into what pushed him out of business and into politics, why he ran when he was fairly sure he would not win, and how he read the night the results came in. We also get into his case on the wealth gap here, where he thinks the next generation is headed once AI can do half the job, and what he tells the kids in his own family about picking work they will not come to hate. This is a conversation about running for something you do not expect to win, and about what he thinks the next generation is walking into.

    Story Highlights

    • The 2020 election as the spark. The government broke what he calls an unspoken rule and handed out direct COVID support, then called an election, and he watched a lot of that money stop at the bosses instead of reaching workers.
    • GST climbing from seven to nine, which he calls a rude awakening for someone whose whole life is running businesses and growing a fund.
    • Going through the government’s own statistics, the bankruptcies, the numbers, to check the everything-is-fine messaging against what the data actually said.
    • The stat he built the campaign around: 5% of Singaporeans hold 30% of the wealth, because capital begets capital.
    • Using Reddit and HardwareZone as a litmus test for where public anger actually sits, and how he reads who on there is a journalist, who is a ministry fishing for policy ideas, and who is just angry.
    • The coordinated misinformation that showed up right when he was live on a rally or an interview.
    • Reading election night through the entire opposition’s results rather than his own, knowing a different set of outcomes would have made independents look like a dead end.
    • His pitch to younger Singaporeans: accountant, engineer, lawyer are skill sets, not identities, and the one-title-one-track life is over.
    • The homework assignment that told him the system is already shifting. A cousin was asked to make a burnt, crisp note that Romeo might have written to Juliet, not to explain how the author felt.

    Quote

    “The idea that you hold one job and one job only, that’s not the way life works anymore.”

    About Jeremy Tan

    Jeremy Tan is a Singaporean entrepreneur who contested the 2025 general election as an independent in Mountbatten SMC, taking 36.16% of the vote against the PAP’s Gho Sze Kee. It was the strongest result for an independent candidate in Singapore since 1972. He built and sold a business before the campaign, listing himself as retired on his nomination papers, and now consults across retail, decentralized finance, and a pickleball tournament platform he is building. He has not ruled out running again. Find him on LinkedIn or at jeremytan.sg.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Most election stories end at the result. Win and it was worth it, lose and it was not. Jeremy is harder to sort that way. He knew going in he probably would not take the seat, and he reads the outcome like a data point: against the whole opposition’s night, against what it means for the next independent who runs, against whether voters now treat independents as a real option. The 53-year number is the headline. The read underneath it is the reason to listen.

    Turning Points

    • The 2020 COVID election. Watching direct handouts go out and then stop before they reached the workers they were meant for, in a region with a large elderly population, moved running from an idea to a plan.
    • Reading the government’s statistics himself and concluding the problem was structural: a government working in silos, and in silos of thought.
    • Accepting he was not going to be PM or leader of the opposition, and deciding a single seat was still a contribution worth making.
    • Election night, when he chose to measure his loss against the whole opposition’s results and saw how easily the story could have gone the other way for independents.

    Key Lessons

    • An independent result is a signal, not just a seat. He read his own numbers against the whole opposition’s night, and his point was that a strong showing makes independents a more normal option, both for voters and for whoever runs next.
    • A job title is not an identity. He tells younger people that accountant, engineer and lawyer are skill sets, not final states, and that the ones who do well will run themselves like a small department rather than climb a single ladder.
    • For juniors, branding beats tooling. His read is that the middle of the org chart is being cut fast, so a junior’s job is to become the person a trusted operator wants beside them, not just another competent AI user.
    • Read the anger where it actually lives. He treats Reddit and HardwareZone as a way to gauge the tail end of public sentiment, the stuff that surfaces online well before it shows up at the ballot box.
    • Comfort is the failure mode. His view is that the system built enough comfort that people stopped asking whether they could do things differently, and that saying so out loud is politically hard but closer to the truth.

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  • Nini Marini on Becoming a Full-Time Artist and What It Cost

    Nini Marini on Becoming a Full-Time Artist and What It Cost

    Intro

    Nini Marini spent close to 20 years in Malaysian broadcasting before she walked away to make art full time. Then she found out that being a full-time artist made her unhappy, which is not the ending anyone wants from that story.

    In this episode we get into the two lives she ran in parallel for two decades, and the painting that finally collided them. Nini talks about being sent into sports television by her father with no interest in sports, building a job title that did not exist, pitching a three-day week to a company that was not ready for it, and what it actually felt like when the art had to pay the bills. We also get into the work she does now in art philanthropy, and the Malay word her country’s master craftspeople use to describe themselves. It means the lowest of the low. This is a conversation about leaving the safe version of your life and finding it more complicated than the story you tell about it.

    Story Highlights

    • Growing up between a mother who taught her about bread and butter money and a father who told her to get a job and pay him back for her overseas education.
    • Coming home from a UK visual communications degree trained for a role that had no name in Malaysia yet, and landing in Formula 1 production instead.
    • Writing a university thesis on why the Powerpuff Girls looked different from Dexter’s Laboratory, at an art school, and getting away with it.
    • Practicing art on the side for years with a deliberate goal: keep a portfolio alive for the life after television.
    • The “why not” rule that got her onto a billboard and onto a pair of sneakers, mostly unpaid.
    • Freestyling a phoenix rising from the ashes, posting it, and having it reach the group managing director whose next company brainstorm happened to carry the same name.
    • Pitching a deck called Doing Things a Little Differently, getting parked in HR for a month, and leaving with a package instead.
    • Discovering that commissions, galleries, and series turned the one thing that was purely hers into something with a deadline attached.
    • Going back into a structure on purpose, this time with art as the subject matter rather than the thing she squeezed in on weekends.
    • Working on heritage craft now, where the fight is convincing the makers themselves that what they do counts.

    Quote

    “When I’m doing art for myself, it’s pure selfishness. I spend a lot of time with myself. I think, I float, I dream, I meditate, and it’s purely a safe space. Which is why, actually, when I was a full-time artist, I wasn’t quite happy there.”

    About Nini Marini

    Nini Marini is a Malaysian multi-artist and art advocate. She spent close to 20 years in broadcasting, moving from sports production into a content innovation role built around her, while running a parallel life as an illustrator and painter. She left in 2018, spent the pandemic figuring out what a creative life could look like, and now works in art philanthropy focused on heritage craft, creative education, and building an ecosystem that does not force every artist to become an entrepreneur to survive. She still paints, and she is deliberate about keeping that part free of clients. Find her at @ninimarini_ on Instagram or at ninimarini.art.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    The story we tell about leaving a corporate career for art ends at the leaving. Nini’s does not. She got the thing she wanted, sat inside it, and worked out that the pressure had followed her in through the income. Then she went back to a structure without going back on herself. That version of the story is less quotable and much more useful.

    Turning Points

    • Being told to earn her keep after graduating during a recession, and taking a job in a medium she had no training in.
    • The phoenix painting reaching her company’s leadership, and a boss who unveiled it to the whole organization instead of asking why she had a second life.
    • Telling that same boss she wanted to flip her percentages: 60% media and 40% art, reversed, just to see how she would behave.
    • Realizing during the pressured years that the problem was not her talent or her market but that the system was never built for people like her.
    • A front-page business feature on creative education that turned into an invitation into philanthropy, and another “why not.”

    Key Lessons

    • You can build the job you want inside a job you did not choose. Nini turned sports production into a content innovation role by treating every unfamiliar brief as something to learn from.
    • Making your art your income changes what you make. When paintings have to be affordable and shows have to be series, the work starts getting intentional in a way that has nothing to do with the work.
    • Structure is not the enemy of creativity. She missed it, went back to it, and got her art back in the process.
    • Naming yourself is a practical act, not a vanity one. She invented “multi-artist” because the alternative was answering the same question about hobbies for the rest of her life.
    • The people making the thing are often the last to believe it has value, and that belief gap is its own kind of heritage loss.

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  • Alyssa Lie on Going Viral, Burning Out, and Being Told Her Personality Was Fake

    Alyssa Lie on Going Viral, Burning Out, and Being Told Her Personality Was Fake

    Intro

    Alyssa Lie skipped university at 18 and auditioned her way into musical theater at LaSalle with almost no training. Ten years later she is a singer, a content creator, and her own manager, and she has spent most of that time working out which parts of the person people love online actually belong to her.

    In this episode we get into what happens when the thing that made you go viral is also the thing making you miserable. Alyssa talks about choosing plan A when the adults at the dinner table were split, being told in her first year of school that she did not deserve to be there, and the slow slide from posting for joy to posting for the algorithm. She walks through a burnout that arrived while every metric was still going up, the comments accusing her of faking her own positivity, and a lunch in Bali that cracked something open. This is a conversation about getting very good at performing a version of yourself, and what is left when you stop.

    Story Highlights

    • Choosing musical theater at LaSalle over university at 18, with two or three singing lessons, one monologue coaching session, and no dance preparation before the audition.
    • Learning years later that most of the audition panel thought she was too young and too inexperienced, and that one teacher pushed for her anyway.
    • Surviving a first year where a classmate told her repeatedly that she did not belong, while she was already carrying her own imposter syndrome.
    • Leaving school with the craft and none of the business, and realizing the gatekeepers she had been trained to wait for no longer held the gate.
    • Going viral on TikTok in 2020 with accents, skits, and comedy, then watching joy turn into a formula she had to keep feeding.
    • Burning out while the metrics, the money, and the campaigns were all working, and having no explanation for why.
    • Reading comments that said her positive energy was an act, and starting to wonder if the commenters were right.
    • A lunch in Bali with someone she hoped would be further along than she was, who told her she was hiding something and offered to put her in denim.
    • Splitting the work in two so music never has to pay the bills, and building the business around it instead.

    Quote

    “As the algorithm gives you this dopamine hit, and, like, this feedback loop, you start forgetting what actually brings you joy, and you start thinking what brings the algorithm joy.”

    About Alyssa Lie

    Alyssa Lie is a Singapore-based singer, content creator, and her own manager. She trained in musical theater at LaSalle after choosing performance over a university degree at 18, and has spent the decade since running every part of her career herself: the branding, the packaging, the pitching, the back end. She built an audience on TikTok through comedy, accents, and voiceovers, then rebuilt it around mental health, creative work, and what it actually takes to manage yourself as an artist. She still releases music, organizes her own concerts and shoots, and is now building a community and working toward a book. You can find her as Alyssa Lie on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, Spotify, and Apple Music.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Most stories about burnout come with a visible cause. Alyssa’s came while everything was working, which made it harder to name and much harder to explain to anyone else. What she eventually traced it back to was not the workload. It was how much room she had given other people to decide what was real about her, and how well the thing they liked most had been paying.

    Turning Points

    • Sitting at the dinner table at 18 while her aunt and uncle argued over plan A and plan B, and deciding she had never lived with a plan B.
    • Calling her former counselor at the end of her first year to ask whether to drop out, and working through what she stood to lose in each direction.
    • Noticing that she felt angry while making content, and still making it anyway because it was easy.
    • The lunch in Bali, the drive home, and the five phone calls after it.
    • Letting go of the content identity that worked, and posting the deeper material knowing the audience did not ask for it.

    Key Lessons

    • One person seeing something in you can be the whole difference. Alyssa got into the course on a single teacher’s insistence.
    • The people who take shots at you are usually telling you about themselves. Getting to indifference took her two years and an instruction from her teacher she did not want to hear.
    • Craft is not a career. Nobody taught her the business side, and the ceiling she kept hitting turned out to be a branding problem, not a talent problem.
    • Never make your art carry the money. Once music had to fund everything, every creative decision became a commercial one.
    • Nobody else gets to certify what is real about you, including the people who look healed.

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  • Juliana Heng on Stand-Up Comedy, Neurodivergence, Queerness, and the Cost of Being Yourself

    Juliana Heng on Stand-Up Comedy, Neurodivergence, Queerness, and the Cost of Being Yourself

    Intro

    Juliana Heng left a stable career in accounting to become a stand-up comedian, and somewhere along the way, the stage became the place they figured out who they actually were.

    In this episode, we explore what happens when a career pivot uncovers parts of yourself you have spent years keeping quiet. Juliana walks us through the terrifying experience of leaving the safe path, bombing on stage during the early days of their comedy career in Malaysia, and dealing with critics who told them they didn’t belong. We get into the difficult choices they made to ignore the “easy road” of family expectations, how they incorporated their autism and neurodivergent experiences into their act, and the journey of navigating queerness and gender identity in the public eye. This is a conversation about the courage it takes to venture into the unknown and the price you pay for living authentically.

    Story Highlights

    • Leaving behind a stable and traditional career in accounting to face the uncertainty of stand-up comedy in Malaysia.
    • Using the stage to surface hidden parts of their identity, openly sharing their autism diagnosis and neurodivergent experiences with audiences.
    • Exploring queerness and the journey to self-acceptance while navigating a culture that often expects conformity.
    • Enduring the brutal early days of comedy, including bombing frequently and facing harsh criticism from peers who said they didn’t deserve to be on stage.
    • The emotional cost of being true to yourself when the people closest to you—like family—want a different, safer version of your life.
    • Redefining success away from monetary value to focus entirely on health, happiness, and finding spaces where they are fully embraced.

    Quote

    “There are two choice I have. One, to take the easy road is to actually just listen to what your mom say. The second route is to actually venture out, figuring out who you are, and then there’s a lot of unknown, and it’s actually much scarier.”

    About Juliana Heng

    Juliana Heng is a stand-up comedian and former accountant from Malaysia who uses the stage to explore identity, authenticity, queerness, and life on the autism spectrum. By stepping away from the corporate world, Juliana embraced the challenging path of live performance to figure out who they truly are. They are a passionate advocate for neurodivergence, LGBTQ+ visibility, and living a life centered on mental and physical health and unapologetic self-acceptance. You can find their quirky and authentic content on Instagram under the handle @mxjulianaheng.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Juliana’s story goes far beyond a standard career pivot; it is a raw look at self-discovery through art. Choosing a path filled with unknowns and enduring harsh early criticism requires immense courage, especially when navigating the intersections of autism and queerness in a traditional society. For anyone who feels trapped by conventional expectations, or is afraid to share their true self with the world, Juliana’s journey is a powerful reminder that authenticity, though difficult and scary, is ultimately worth the cost.

    Turning Points

    • Making the decision to leave the safe, prescribed route of accounting to try stand-up comedy.
    • Pushing through the terrible early shows and negative feedback from fellow comedians instead of giving up.
    • Realizing that true fulfillment required abandoning traditional societal checklists in favor of prioritizing personal wellness, neurodivergent needs, and queer acceptance.

    Key Lessons

    • Taking the easy road often means ignoring who you really are; venturing into the unknown is scarier but necessary for self-discovery.
    • Owning your neurodivergent and queer identity on a public platform can be terrifying, but it also creates the space you need to truly thrive.
    • Failure and criticism are inevitable when you start something new, but they do not define your worth or your right to take up space.
    • Success shouldn’t be defined by external metrics or financial value, but by whether your life makes you happy, healthy, and allows you to be embraced for who you are.

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  • Michelle Lee on Retiring in Your 30s, the Cost of the Grind, and Why Money Isn’t Security

    Michelle Lee on Retiring in Your 30s, the Cost of the Grind, and Why Money Isn’t Security

    Intro

    Michelle Lee did what most people only dream about: she planned her retirement at 18, hit her financial number in her early 30s, and stepped away from her corporate career to never have to work for money again.

    In this episode, we explore what actually happens after you reach the finish line you spent your whole life running toward. Michelle shares the unexpected identity crisis that came with leaving the career that defined her, the relational costs of spending years grinding in “survival mode,” and why she now chooses to spend her time as a part-time private hire driver. This is a conversation about redefining security, planning for the unpredictable, and learning that reaching your financial goals means very little if you arrive there alone.

    Story Highlights

    • Setting a strict goal at 18 to retire early, and successfully hitting her target in her early 30s through intense financial planning and discipline.
    • Navigating the sudden void and identity crisis that hit after stepping away from the career path that had defined her entire adult life.
    • The realization that the relentless pursuit of wealth and grinding in “survival mode” had cost her heavily in her personal relationships.
    • Becoming a part-time private hire driver despite having no financial need to work, simply to find connection and listen to people who just need someone to talk to.
    • Using her financial background to methodically plan for the true unpredictabilities of early retirement, like disability and health issues.

    Quote

    “What’s the point of having all the money in the world but you have no one to celebrate with, no one to share the joy with you? And you are all alone by yourself.”

    About Michelle Lee

    Michelle Lee is an early retiree and content creator who achieved financial independence in her early 30s. After successfully navigating the transition away from the corporate ladder, she now spends her time as a part-time private hire driver, enjoying the human connection and stories of her passengers. She actively shares her journey, financial literacy tips, and life philosophies on Instagram and Threads under the handle “Ask Michelle Lee,” helping others figure out how to plan for a secure future without sacrificing their present.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Michelle’s story is the reality check to the popular FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement. She achieved the ultimate financial dream but is radically honest about the emotional and relational toll it took to get there. What makes this conversation so compelling is her discovery that true security isn’t a number in a bank account, but rather the connections you build and the community you have around you. For anyone constantly chasing the next promotion or financial milestone, this episode is a crucial reminder to pause and evaluate what you might be sacrificing along the way.

    Turning Points

    • Realizing that the belief she held since childhood—that “money means security”—was fundamentally flawed once she actually had the money.
    • Experiencing the profound loneliness of reaching the top of her mountain, prompting a deep shift in how she valued relationships versus financial success.
    • Discovering a renewed sense of purpose and joy in the simple act of driving and listening to the stories of her passengers, many of whom just wanted to be heard.

    Key Lessons

    • Money can buy freedom, but it cannot buy true security or fulfillment if you isolate yourself in the process.
    • If you plan to take an unconventional path like retiring in your 30s, you must rigorously plan for unpredictable variables like long-term health and disability.
    • Your career should not be your entire identity; if it is, leaving it will trigger a crisis.
    • Taking time to connect with everyday people—and simply being willing to listen to them—can provide more joy than any corporate accolade.

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  • Yip Yew Chong on the Fiction of Memory, Mid-Career Pivots, and Painting Singapore’s Heritage

    Yip Yew Chong on the Fiction of Memory, Mid-Career Pivots, and Painting Singapore’s Heritage

    Intro

    Yip Yew Chong is the artist behind the sprawling, nostalgic murals that have become a defining feature of Singapore’s urban landscape across neighborhoods like Chinatown and Tiong Bahru.

    In this episode, we move past the aesthetics of his work to explore the reality of his transition and mid-career reinvention. Yew Chong walks us through spending a successful 25 years in finance before becoming a full-time artist at the age of 49. We get into his pragmatic approach to following a passion, the three-year “parallel run” where he balanced international business trips with weekend painting, and why he believes his art is more about the fiction of memory than preserving strict history. This is a conversation about the stamina required to pursue a dream without ignoring the reality of keeping food on the table.

    Story Highlights

    • Spending 25 years in accountancy and finance as his main career before transitioning to a full-time artist in 2018.
    • Enduring a grueling three-year “parallel run” from 2015 to 2018, balancing his role as a finance director in an MNC with painting on the streets during his weekends.
    • Knocking on doors in Chinatown to get permission from shop house owners and facing rejections due to privacy concerns before finally getting his big break through private connections.
    • Discovering his signature nostalgic style organically, simply because his first public murals at Everton Road happened to be in a historical conservation area.
    • Balancing passion projects that allow for free-flowing ideas without deadlines against commissioned works that bring food to the table faster.
    • Overcoming the “cringe” factor when looking at older works, viewing it instead as a necessary sign of artistic progress and evolution.

    Quote

    “My works… 50% are my imagination. 25% are research. And 25% I lived as memory. So that 50% of imagination dominates the whole thing… which is why I say fiction. Fiction of my imagination. Fiction of my lived memories.”

    About Yip Yew Chong

    Yip Yew Chong is a Singaporean artist widely known for his nostalgic public murals located in areas like Chinatown and Tiong Bahru. After a 25-year successful career in finance, he transitioned to full-time artistry at age 49. Rather than strictly preserving history, his work aims to capture the vibes and expressions of his lived experiences. He works across a diversity of formats, including canvases, digital drawings, and filmmaking, and is currently embarking on a multi-year project painting places around the world.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Yew Chong’s story challenges the “starving artist” stereotype and the idea that chasing a dream requires a reckless leap. His transition was natural and built on years of pragmatic planning, waiting until he had fulfilled family obligations and secured public recognition before leaving his corporate job. For anyone contemplating a second act mid-career, this episode provides a grounded, realistic framework for turning a lifelong passion into a sustainable reality without sacrificing financial security.

    Turning Points

    • Taking a break from his accountancy work in 2015 to try painting a mural on the street for the first time, inspired by public works in Malaysia and Singapore.
    • The immediate public recognition of his first murals at Everton Road, which proved there was an audience for his art.
    • Reaching a point after 25 years of work where his children were grown, his financial obligations were met, and his wife encouraged him to finally dedicate time to himself.

    Key Lessons

    • If you have obligations to fulfill, avoid idealistic leaps; try a parallel run and transition naturally once the timing is right.
    • Passion must be the foundation of your pursuit; chasing something just because it seems glamorous will not sustain you.
    • To connect with an audience, capture the “vibe” and feeling of a place rather than focusing strictly on geographical or historical accuracy.
    • It is essential to continually evolve, reinvent yourself, and diversify your skills to stay relevant in a fast-changing world.

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  • Martin Bém on Letting Go of Control and Building Through Uncertainty

    Martin Bém on Letting Go of Control and Building Through Uncertainty

    Intro

    Martin Bém is an Austrian-born entrepreneur who has spent the last 26 years building a business life in Singapore — one that began with a corporate posting and evolved into something entirely his own. He is the founder of Level 33, widely recognized as the world’s highest microbrewery, perched on the 33rd floor of Marina Bay Financial Centre.

    In this episode, we move past the landmark location and the accolades to look at the full arc of how he got there. Martin walks us through arriving in Singapore in 1999 as a relative unknown to the region, deciding to leave the corporate track and start his own business, and being immediately hit by SARS. We get into what it took to survive that, how COVID nearly undid an expansion years in the making, and what he’s learned about making decisions when you don’t have the full picture. This is a conversation about staying curious, not falling in love with your own ideas, and building something that lasts.

    Story Highlights

    • Moving from Vienna to Milan to Singapore in 1999 on a posting with San Pellegrino, and choosing to stay rather than return to a corporate ladder in Europe
    • Launching PO Partners as a bridge between European brands and Asian markets — and landing in the middle of the SARS outbreak days after signing the first contracts
    • Finding a business partner with months of runway left, a relationship that has now lasted 24 years
    • Building the restaurant concept on the back of a distribution deal, entering the F&B world with zero prior operational experience
    • The thinking behind Level 33 — wanting fresh, unpasteurized beer, a serious wine list, and a real kitchen under one roof, in a location nobody else had thought to ask about
    • Getting within days of signing a licensing deal to bring Level 33 to Australia, only for COVID to derail the construction and the developer to pivot to apartments
    • A staff retention model built around monthly appraisals, a four-day kitchen work week, service charge distributions, and a mission beyond just running a restaurant
    • The challenge facing Singapore’s F&B industry — rising rents, labor quotas, and well-resourced foreign chains using Singapore as a proving ground
    • The line between passion and stress when your business employs 70 people and the government is changing opening rules week to week

    Quote

    “You cannot fall in love with your concept too much. I take my favorite dishes off the menu if they don’t sell.”

    About Martin Bém

    Martin Bém is the founder of Level 33, the world’s highest microbrewery, located at Marina Bay Financial Centre in Singapore. Originally from Vienna, with a PhD and early career years in Milan, he arrived in Singapore in 1999 on a corporate posting and never left. Over the past two and a half decades, he has built and operated multiple F&B concepts across Singapore and China, including Brauhaus, and has been a consistent voice on the challenges and opportunities facing the industry in the region. He is currently working toward B Corp certification for Level 33 and exploring expansion opportunities internationally.

    Why This Conversation Matters

    Martin’s story cuts against the clean version of entrepreneurship. He didn’t leave a corporate job with a fully formed plan and a runway — he left with a few months of savings, launched into a health crisis that shut down the entire market, and built from there. What’s interesting isn’t the success of Level 33, which by now is well documented. It’s the decision-making behind it: when to hold, when to cut, how to stay attached enough to care but detached enough to act. For anyone navigating the tension between conviction and flexibility — in business or otherwise — this conversation is worth sitting with.

    Turning Points

    Martin’s path was shaped by several moments where the plan simply stopped working. SARS hit before his first clients could place an order. A 24-year business partnership was born out of necessity when the funds ran low. The Australia expansion — fully designed, terms agreed upon — was erased by COVID and a developer who did the math on apartments. What emerges from each of these isn’t a pivot narrative, but something quieter: a pattern of recognizing what you can’t control, doing the math honestly, and moving forward anyway. The decision to leave the Bjо microbrewery franchise in China in 2019 — in hindsight, at the right moment — shows the same instinct applied in reverse.

    Key Lessons

    • Start small and test before making drastic moves — a pilot that gets traction is more useful than a leap of faith
    • In F&B, the feedback cycle is short; if something isn’t working, you’ll know within a week, so act on it
    • Falling in love with your own idea is one of the more costly habits a founder can have
    • Retention is built through systems, not gestures — monthly check-ins, shared upside, and a sense of purpose beyond the job
    • Passion is sustainable when the challenge feels interesting rather than threatening, and building a good team makes that possible
    • Know when to exit; not every peak is a plateau

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